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	<title>Comments on: Do You Need the APR?</title>
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	<description>Journalism and PR blog</description>
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		<title>By: The value of professional certification &#171; Carr Perspectives</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-3525</link>
		<dc:creator>The value of professional certification &#171; Carr Perspectives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:30:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-3525</guid>
		<description>[...] I did my research into which certification would benefit me, I read a blog by Jeremy Porter on Journalistics, titled “Do You Need The APR?” He weighs the pros and cons of APR certification and the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I did my research into which certification would benefit me, I read a blog by Jeremy Porter on Journalistics, titled “Do You Need The APR?” He weighs the pros and cons of APR certification and the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doyle Albee</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2978</link>
		<dc:creator>Doyle Albee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2978</guid>
		<description>As a practitioner with more than 25 years of experience on both the corporate and agency sides without an APR (I&#039;ve thought about it, but never have pursued for some of the very reasons many of the commenters have already covered), I think this is far from black and white. I do think this is a valuable conversation, however, and I&#039;d like to weigh in on the original three points.

APRs make more money. Like some of the other commenters, I&#039;d love to see data on that. It&#039;s certainly contrary to my experience, and I can tell you as president of an agency, APR/no APR would not weigh at all in my decision to either hire or determine salary. However, I&#039;ll also fully recognize that might be different for someone in my position with an APR, and I&#039;d like to hear from an agency head who does consider the APR in hiring/salary decisions.

Do &quot;people&quot; take you more seriously? Again, perhaps those that feel the designation is important will. My agency works with many companies as the outsourced PR department, so in those cases we don&#039;t report to an in-house PR professional. In those cases, the APR designation certainly doesn&#039;t cause anyone to take our staff any more or less seriously since not many outside of the PR industry — unlike the CPA examples many have used in the comments — are familiar with the designation and what is required to get it.

As far as respect from my peers, I have to side with those that have said &quot;my peers in PRSA&quot; may respect it, but not many others. In some cases, I have peers that are very active in IABC, which has it&#039;s own certification, and they look for and recognize their own designation. Personally, I carefully examine experience, accomplishments and input from others in the industry far above any certification from any organization.

While I have APRs on my staff, I also have to note that I&#039;ve never been asked for that information by any potential client, nor do I typically include that fact in new business pitches. I can also say I&#039;ve never been told I didn&#039;t get a piece of business because the company valued APRs and we didn&#039;t note that.

In the end, I think this designation is a data point — and a positive one to be sure — but one that must be considered as a part of the whole person. I certainly don&#039;t think it&#039;s quite the deal maker (or deal breaker) this article implies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a practitioner with more than 25 years of experience on both the corporate and agency sides without an APR (I&#8217;ve thought about it, but never have pursued for some of the very reasons many of the commenters have already covered), I think this is far from black and white. I do think this is a valuable conversation, however, and I&#8217;d like to weigh in on the original three points.</p>
<p>APRs make more money. Like some of the other commenters, I&#8217;d love to see data on that. It&#8217;s certainly contrary to my experience, and I can tell you as president of an agency, APR/no APR would not weigh at all in my decision to either hire or determine salary. However, I&#8217;ll also fully recognize that might be different for someone in my position with an APR, and I&#8217;d like to hear from an agency head who does consider the APR in hiring/salary decisions.</p>
<p>Do &#8220;people&#8221; take you more seriously? Again, perhaps those that feel the designation is important will. My agency works with many companies as the outsourced PR department, so in those cases we don&#8217;t report to an in-house PR professional. In those cases, the APR designation certainly doesn&#8217;t cause anyone to take our staff any more or less seriously since not many outside of the PR industry — unlike the CPA examples many have used in the comments — are familiar with the designation and what is required to get it.</p>
<p>As far as respect from my peers, I have to side with those that have said &#8220;my peers in PRSA&#8221; may respect it, but not many others. In some cases, I have peers that are very active in IABC, which has it&#8217;s own certification, and they look for and recognize their own designation. Personally, I carefully examine experience, accomplishments and input from others in the industry far above any certification from any organization.</p>
<p>While I have APRs on my staff, I also have to note that I&#8217;ve never been asked for that information by any potential client, nor do I typically include that fact in new business pitches. I can also say I&#8217;ve never been told I didn&#8217;t get a piece of business because the company valued APRs and we didn&#8217;t note that.</p>
<p>In the end, I think this designation is a data point — and a positive one to be sure — but one that must be considered as a part of the whole person. I certainly don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s quite the deal maker (or deal breaker) this article implies.</p>
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		<title>By: FirstAmendmentFan</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2435</link>
		<dc:creator>FirstAmendmentFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2435</guid>
		<description>I support the &quot;money grab&quot; argument. Aren&#039;t other professional organizations just as legit. as PRSA? Such as IABC or PressWomen or marketing organizations? Yet you have to join and stay in the PR club to retain your &quot;accreditation.&quot; I am a member of other organizations in addition to PRSA, and I get more out of their meetings than I do PRSA&#039;s.
   The only time I have seen &quot;APR preferred&quot; on a job description was when an APR wrote her own as part of a departmental reorganization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I support the &#8220;money grab&#8221; argument. Aren&#8217;t other professional organizations just as legit. as PRSA? Such as IABC or PressWomen or marketing organizations? Yet you have to join and stay in the PR club to retain your &#8220;accreditation.&#8221; I am a member of other organizations in addition to PRSA, and I get more out of their meetings than I do PRSA&#8217;s.<br />
   The only time I have seen &#8220;APR preferred&#8221; on a job description was when an APR wrote her own as part of a departmental reorganization.</p>
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		<title>By: Angie Antonopoulos</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2337</link>
		<dc:creator>Angie Antonopoulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 05:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2337</guid>
		<description>Ashley,

It is customary to have at least five years working experience before pursuing an accreditation in public relations. The time you spend practicing public relations prior to that time will be valuable as you prepare for your portfolio, readiness review, and exam.  Much of the knowledge, skills, and abilities you acquire will help you in the cases presented by panelists and the exam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashley,</p>
<p>It is customary to have at least five years working experience before pursuing an accreditation in public relations. The time you spend practicing public relations prior to that time will be valuable as you prepare for your portfolio, readiness review, and exam.  Much of the knowledge, skills, and abilities you acquire will help you in the cases presented by panelists and the exam.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Bottary</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2259</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Bottary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2259</guid>
		<description>Correction - I left out a word that altered the meaning of the sentence.  Note the addition of word &quot;are&quot; before asked.  Thanks, Leo

&quot;During times where we should be walking by the CEO’s side, many PR pros are asked to sit on the sidelines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction &#8211; I left out a word that altered the meaning of the sentence.  Note the addition of word &#8220;are&#8221; before asked.  Thanks, Leo</p>
<p>&#8220;During times where we should be walking by the CEO’s side, many PR pros are asked to sit on the sidelines.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Bottary</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2258</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Bottary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2258</guid>
		<description>Jeffrey, I don&#039;t know how else to say this.  The blog post in my earlier comment provides some ideas pertaining to what we can do as practitioners.  Self-credentialing is not the answer.  That&#039;s not my opinion, it&#039;s a well documented fact.   It&#039;s not that APR preparation is not a valuable professional development activity; it is, but it&#039;s only one of many.   It&#039;s the overblown nature of the credential that&#039;s the problem.  I&#039;ve worked with hundreds of PR professionals in my 25 year career, some APRs and most not.  Some APRs were great, while others were terrible. Some ethical, some not - same goes for the non-APR crowd.  (APR training may change what you know, but it rarely impacts who you are, hence the lack of ethical efficacy).   Over the years, I&#039;ve found no discernible difference in skill level, ethics, savvy, knowledge, etc. between APRs and non-APRs.   That&#039;s because there is none, and it shouldn&#039;t be a big surprise. 

The fact is, when times get tough PR people/budgets are among the first to get cut.   During times where we should be walking by the CEO&#039;s side, many PR pros asked to sit on the sidelines.  There are myriad reasons for this dynamic - too many to cover in a comment.  It&#039;s not PRSA&#039;s fault nor is it APR&#039;s fault, but neither will solve the problem either. 

I think we have to come to grips with the idea that the shortest distance between two points is NOT a straight line.   We should borrow a page from the best publicly traded companies.   One could argue that the CEO is primarily responsible to shareholders and for shareholder value.  To deliver the best results for shareholders however, the CEO&#039;s order of priorities are employees, customers, communities, then shareholders.   The CEO understands that by placing shareholders fourth on the priority list, they will reap the greatest returns.  As PR people, if we want to improve our reputation, we need to focus on the people that will get us there.    Only after we do so successfully will a credentialing program of any kind stand a chance of being credible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeffrey, I don&#8217;t know how else to say this.  The blog post in my earlier comment provides some ideas pertaining to what we can do as practitioners.  Self-credentialing is not the answer.  That&#8217;s not my opinion, it&#8217;s a well documented fact.   It&#8217;s not that APR preparation is not a valuable professional development activity; it is, but it&#8217;s only one of many.   It&#8217;s the overblown nature of the credential that&#8217;s the problem.  I&#8217;ve worked with hundreds of PR professionals in my 25 year career, some APRs and most not.  Some APRs were great, while others were terrible. Some ethical, some not &#8211; same goes for the non-APR crowd.  (APR training may change what you know, but it rarely impacts who you are, hence the lack of ethical efficacy).   Over the years, I&#8217;ve found no discernible difference in skill level, ethics, savvy, knowledge, etc. between APRs and non-APRs.   That&#8217;s because there is none, and it shouldn&#8217;t be a big surprise. </p>
<p>The fact is, when times get tough PR people/budgets are among the first to get cut.   During times where we should be walking by the CEO&#8217;s side, many PR pros asked to sit on the sidelines.  There are myriad reasons for this dynamic &#8211; too many to cover in a comment.  It&#8217;s not PRSA&#8217;s fault nor is it APR&#8217;s fault, but neither will solve the problem either. </p>
<p>I think we have to come to grips with the idea that the shortest distance between two points is NOT a straight line.   We should borrow a page from the best publicly traded companies.   One could argue that the CEO is primarily responsible to shareholders and for shareholder value.  To deliver the best results for shareholders however, the CEO&#8217;s order of priorities are employees, customers, communities, then shareholders.   The CEO understands that by placing shareholders fourth on the priority list, they will reap the greatest returns.  As PR people, if we want to improve our reputation, we need to focus on the people that will get us there.    Only after we do so successfully will a credentialing program of any kind stand a chance of being credible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Geibel APR, LEED AP</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2257</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Geibel APR, LEED AP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2257</guid>
		<description>Who is the &quot;we&quot;, where is it that &quot;we&quot; want to go, and exactly how are you proposing to get there?

Not clear.

There is always the option of working within the structure of PRSA to effect changes. But that would require a lot of heavy lifting to change the orientation of many constituencies and the status quo. And of course, an APR would be needed for credibility there.

The criteria of what clients want is not necessarily a valid metric. Remember, many clients want non-credible &quot;spin&quot; (and will pay a lot for it) - not professionalism. Just like in hiring a good defense lawyer - not so much for &quot;professionalism&quot; - but to get the &quot;results&quot; that the client wants - regardless of the client&#039;s behavior that got them there. Few would state that OJ&#039;s legal &quot;dream team&quot; represented the best &quot;professionalism&quot; of the legal profession - but they got him off. That result, to this day, has caused a certain credibility issue for the judicial system - often stated as: the best justice money can buy.

To a certain extent, many of the perception problems with the practice of public relations stem from a similar use of pubic relations by clients - and the practitioners who are willing to support them.

Not clear how that can be changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is the &#8220;we&#8221;, where is it that &#8220;we&#8221; want to go, and exactly how are you proposing to get there?</p>
<p>Not clear.</p>
<p>There is always the option of working within the structure of PRSA to effect changes. But that would require a lot of heavy lifting to change the orientation of many constituencies and the status quo. And of course, an APR would be needed for credibility there.</p>
<p>The criteria of what clients want is not necessarily a valid metric. Remember, many clients want non-credible &#8220;spin&#8221; (and will pay a lot for it) &#8211; not professionalism. Just like in hiring a good defense lawyer &#8211; not so much for &#8220;professionalism&#8221; &#8211; but to get the &#8220;results&#8221; that the client wants &#8211; regardless of the client&#8217;s behavior that got them there. Few would state that OJ&#8217;s legal &#8220;dream team&#8221; represented the best &#8220;professionalism&#8221; of the legal profession &#8211; but they got him off. That result, to this day, has caused a certain credibility issue for the judicial system &#8211; often stated as: the best justice money can buy.</p>
<p>To a certain extent, many of the perception problems with the practice of public relations stem from a similar use of pubic relations by clients &#8211; and the practitioners who are willing to support them.</p>
<p>Not clear how that can be changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Leo Bottary</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2256</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo Bottary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2256</guid>
		<description>We should focus on raising the credibility of PR not APR.  The APR road has not and will not take us where we want to go.   The sooner we all realize that, the better chance we have of improving the reputation of the PR profession.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should focus on raising the credibility of PR not APR.  The APR road has not and will not take us where we want to go.   The sooner we all realize that, the better chance we have of improving the reputation of the PR profession.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy C.</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2255</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2255</guid>
		<description>It would help raise the credibility of the APR if there was some type of enforcement mechanism as well. As it stands, as long as you continue your dues and get your continuing ed credits you can keep your APR. To me its like having the REALTOR designation, that you are a member of the National Association of REALTORS. Great to have if you want it, but no substitute for talent and no guarantee of ethical behavior.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would help raise the credibility of the APR if there was some type of enforcement mechanism as well. As it stands, as long as you continue your dues and get your continuing ed credits you can keep your APR. To me its like having the REALTOR designation, that you are a member of the National Association of REALTORS. Great to have if you want it, but no substitute for talent and no guarantee of ethical behavior.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandra</title>
		<link>http://blog.journalistics.com/2009/do-you-need-the-apr/comment-page-1/#comment-2253</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.journalistics.com/?p=1064#comment-2253</guid>
		<description>Some years ago, during my PR studies, my group and I did a study on the value of the APR and what we found is pretty much everything mentioned in all your previous comments...what value does it hold for the client that has no idea what it is? Yes, it will make us stick out amongst our peers, but our peers are not the only people that we want to impress with our credentials. Having a designation like an MBA will get you at the management table more-so than the APR which tells me that we as PR practitioners have a lot of work to do to raise the validity and credibility of the APR as a tried and true designation of the REAL PR professional.  That&#039;s not so say that those of us with our certificates, BA&#039;s, MBA&#039;s and PhD&#039;s in PR are not REAL practitioners, but I certainly take my hat off to those practitioners that have gone that extra mile to raise the bar on our discipline by achieving their APR. If anyone is interested, here is a link to a short article on the CPRS Toronto website that one of my team members did on the study that we conducted: http://www.cprstoronto.com/resources/item.aspx?id=205. If anyone is interested in reading the full report, I would be glad to share that as well. Don&#039;t hesitate to reach out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some years ago, during my PR studies, my group and I did a study on the value of the APR and what we found is pretty much everything mentioned in all your previous comments&#8230;what value does it hold for the client that has no idea what it is? Yes, it will make us stick out amongst our peers, but our peers are not the only people that we want to impress with our credentials. Having a designation like an MBA will get you at the management table more-so than the APR which tells me that we as PR practitioners have a lot of work to do to raise the validity and credibility of the APR as a tried and true designation of the REAL PR professional.  That&#8217;s not so say that those of us with our certificates, BA&#8217;s, MBA&#8217;s and PhD&#8217;s in PR are not REAL practitioners, but I certainly take my hat off to those practitioners that have gone that extra mile to raise the bar on our discipline by achieving their APR. If anyone is interested, here is a link to a short article on the CPRS Toronto website that one of my team members did on the study that we conducted: <a href="http://www.cprstoronto.com/resources/item.aspx?id=205" rel="nofollow">http://www.cprstoronto.com/resources/item.aspx?id=205</a>. If anyone is interested in reading the full report, I would be glad to share that as well. Don&#8217;t hesitate to reach out!</p>
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